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Enrico's avatar

Hello, I saw you linking this piece on X in a reply to prof. Stock.

Interesting read, I agree with most of it, except for a feeling I have that between the lines of your rational discussion there may be some spiritual attitude which I would be skeptical of.

If I may, two quick observations.

First, even though you recognize one could be better off without positing a clear nature/nurture divide, I'm not sure I agree with your take on what's "innate" (if I even understood correctly).

You speak of "inborn trait" as being the same as "genetic". You also say "one is not born with a shoe fetish or a pedophilia gene any more than one is born with an attraction to blondes". Well, speaking strictly of shoes it may SOUND as a reductio ad absurdum, but personally I'd bet that a pedophilia gene may indeed be a resonable scientific hypoteses, and I certainly feel if I'm attracted to blondes this isn't too different from being attracted to the opposite sex (which is pretty much understood as innate). I'm afraid the problem lies in you not allowing an intermediate role to be played between genetics and behaviour: learning. There is research showing that one is attracted by what is familiar to him, but not too much similar (as in: preferably don't have sex with your sister, but choose a mate which is not too different from her). This is not particularly a "cultural" influence, more an environmental one, but it's also genetic, in the sense that the algoritm that instructs you what to look for may well be encoded in genes. (So there isn't a gene that tells you: look for blondes, but there may be one that tells you: if your potential mate has the same hair as your sister, all the better -it's not literally this, I'm just outlining the reasoning).

I don't see any essentialist risk in this: I remember Dawkins pointing out that he doesn't understand some feminist fear of admitting some behaviour as genetic in origin: why, if one can fight against what he was conditioned to do by society, couldn't fight in the same way what he was conditioned to do by his genes? One is not more inevitable than the other.

More to the point of your considerations, I think this sentence is a good summary: "consent becomes a kind of baseline, far below anything any reasonable person would consider morally/ethically sufficient". It may well be that the law should be content with the baseline. We can then try to more or less enforce social rules. I'd like to point out that this shouldn't just mean males should strive to be morally above that baseline. I like (and probably share) your approach to virtue ethics. But you seem also to be materialistic. We should then ask what are the material interest of males and females, because they are more likely to have an impact on society. Why should a selfish male be interested in being ethically better than his peers? I don't wanna sound like a MRA or an incel, but they may have a point. Men will be incentivized to behave better when behaving better will be rewarded. Of course dishonesty is a thing, but there are still social clues one can act upon. I'd say we should teach girls to choose boys who behave better over macho types. 30 years ago this attitude bothered me. I grew over that, but rationally I think there is a point: if girls are attracted to the more assertive type, but this is correlated also with more selfishness, then one shouldn't act susprised when this selfishness shows itself.

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Heather Blankenship's avatar

I think it’s interesting that so many people in the medical field (hormone specialists, therapists and surgeons) are okay with “gender affirming care” for minors, when most research indicates the prefrontal cortex isn’t fully developed until around 25 years of age. The prefrontal cortex is responsible for decision making, reasoning and the ability to consider the long term consequences of your actions. I guess if we had laws based on science, you’d need to be 25 years old before you could drink, use (legal) drugs, consent to sex, join the military, vote, consent to “gender affirming care,” and people under 25 years old could not be “tried as an adult” for crimes. Unfortunately, that ship has sailed and if anything the “age of consent” and the age at which youth are tried as adults for crimes seems to just get younger and younger.

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